I recommend watching a video by SFO (ShortFatOtaku) on YouTube who discusses this concept more in depth.
« News and Politics Forum
Fascism is Honest Socialism
27 Replies
Reply by Macky
posted
"The short and sweet of it is that fascists and socialists have a similar
goal of using centralized force in an attempt to benefit a certain
group in society."
There is Libertarian Socialism, and more decentralized ways of organizing society like council communism/syndicalism. Fascism has no decentralized theory and it is inherently authoritarian.
There were smaller revolutions that fell due to other authoritarian/fascist government that used force to stop the revolutions. One of the most prominent Libertarian Socialist revolutions was in Revolutionary Catalonia, and it lasted for around 2 years. Even George Orwell visited Catalonia in that time period and was amazed on how everything was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehzC937Q9Dc
Reply by Macky
posted
"The socialist believes he is entitled to means of productions produced
by someone else, as though means of production are limited."
Well, not exactly. Socialists believe that the workers own the value that they create and not have the profits go to the CEO, but rather to the workers instead.
Reply by Tuesday
posted
Reply by Tuesday
posted
Well, not exactly. Socialists believe that the workers own the value that they create and not have the profits go to the CEO, but rather to the workers instead.
Reply by Emmynette
posted
"They worked on the chair, they now own the chair, and they can do what they like with the chair."
Reply by Emmynette
posted
Reply by Tuesday
posted
In response to your first comment, consider what I said directly before I said "They worked on the chair, they now own the chair, and they can do what they like with a chair."
This is why people who build a chair in the privacy of their own home get to do what they please with it.
As I stated in the last paragraph of my first reply,
Reply by Tuesday
posted
updated
The workplace doesn't need to be organized from forces that do not participate in it.
Marxism is inherently materialist. Liberalism is not. The Marxist state has goals and enforces from the top down (consider how you said socialism is about organizing the workplace, as if the government needs to organize things that are already organized in their own way). The Liberal state is called the Night Watchman state, only appearing when injustice does. Nobody but the Marxists believe that a worker creating a chair and selling it to his employer in return for a wage is injustice.
It should be noted that fascism and socialism are incredibly alike, in the sense that both the socialists and fascists believe in redistribution of those who go against the state's agenda (the socialists and Communists may want state-mandated worker co-ops, the Fascists may want state-mandated propaganda outlets).
This is why Fascist nations often appropriated land from those who went against the government, nationalized it, then handed it over to those who were willing to bend over to the government's demands.
Typically, I think socialists are simply fascists who don't understand the long-term consequences of their beliefs. Consider just how many times Hitler wrote about how he would whip the bourgeoise into obeying what the government told them to do. In the same manner that the fascists appropriate land, nationalize it, and find a designated state actor to take care of it, the socialists have no problem using the state to kick out the boss and replace him with either a collective or a "nicer", state-approved boss.
I recommend ShortFatOtaku's "Fascism is Honest Socialism" on YouTube. If you do watch it, let me know. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts afterwards.
In conclusion,
Reply by Dominic
posted
Reply by Smxth
posted
Reply by Peter Coffin
posted
No, it isn't. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. Read R. Palme Dutt's scientific investigation into the subject, Fascism and Social Revolution.
Reply by Helios (he)
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Reply by Vigilante Stylez
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Reply by ♡ Aniela ♡
posted
well, thats probably because they both started out as factory-workers-ish. Yes, the line between them might be vague sometimes, but the huge difference is probably the way they want to achieve stuff. Socialism was made to be achieved in legal ways, the revolutions should be peaceful. But fascism is a more cruel way of it. Limiting certain groups rights, extreme nationalism etc.
Reply by axie
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Reply by Nukeblast84
posted
Although I can see why some people would believe the horseshoe theory, its quite easy to see that even if some of the infamous founders were anti-capitalist (Anton Drexler and Benito Mussolini) they both advocated for Corporatists economics, especially the NSDAP with its "Socialism" coming from Prussian Socialism which is also corporatist economics. Now, its really anyone's interpretation to classify anything involving Fascism or "Third Position" economics as anything socialist as most of the time, its just interventionists and social solidarity among classes. Of course, Socialist and Marxist views on such a topic is that its to deceive the proletariat and that its naturally capitalists instead of being "Anti-Capital" like its usually espoused to be.
Reply by Gorbi
posted
Capitalist countries don't interfere with fascist countries, hell they even help them! Plenty of companies were still trading with Hitler even during the War. Some companies were paid reparations by the US since their Nazi factories were bombed. Capitalist countries only interfered with fascists of the 1930s cause their imperialism was starting to conflict with their own imperialism.
Reply by Tuesday
posted
It is worth nothing that the "Corporation" as defined by the Fascist is not the same as the "Corporation" as defined by the Capitalist.
A lot of people have given smoothbrain replies. Some have given replies worth responding to. If anyone would like an extended conversation on the subject, feel free to add and message me!
Reply by tumzam8
posted
Reply by boshi
posted
"The socialist believes he is entitled to means of productions produced by someone else"
You've got it all backwards. Who creates the means of production? The elite? Under capitalism the capitalist owns the factory that was constructed by workers.
Reply by Tuesday
posted
A worker who builds a chair is not entitled to the labor of others simply because they live in the same community. Is this an objectionable axiom?
Reply by Rigamortis
posted
updated
Read "The Coming Corporate State" , "Doctrine of Fascism", "We Marched With Mosley", "BUF Oswald Mosley and British Fascism"
This will give you a good fundemental understanding on Fascism and what it sought to achieve at the time.
To add if you want to discuss this topic Further get in touch.
Reply by ᛉΝικόλαςᛣ
posted
Reply by jamie
posted
Capitalism inevitably creates a class of collaborating imperialists, those who purport the idea of "free competition" and "freedom" in general. The fact is, under capitalism people are not principally people. They exist primarily in their position in the class struggle. I recommend you pick up a book like State & Revolution by Vladimir Lenin or Principles of Communism by Friedrich Engels, rather than YouTube video essays by "ShortFatOtaku"s
Reply by Tuesday
posted
You are aware that a video essay often has the same value as a treatise from a century ago? They serve the exact same purpose. It's fallacious to say one is more valuable than the other simply because one is on paper and the other is digital.
I've read some literature (although not everything listed) and often disagree with it. I understand the opposition more, but that doesn't mean I agree.
Reply by sam_nella
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Reply by Alex_Sakh
posted
Basically Fascism and National-socialism are non-Marxist varieties of socialism . and if you compare the political practices of the USSR and Nazi Germany, it turns out that they are very close on the political spectrum. Both ideologies were based on the cult of the leader, the nationalization of private property (in other words, Hitler and Stalin seized industry into their own hands and used it to militarize the state). Sorry for my english , im from Russia and
i dont speak it well.