« Back to the Reclaiming the Internet Forum

A thought on Sadgrl's Internet Manifesto and how the format of websites influences their vibe

Just read Sadgrl's Internet Manifesto.

I really enjoyed it. Great bit of writing. I love this group, the concept of reclaiming the internet, and spacehey in general. There's something I'd like to add to the discussion which I felt was missing from the Manifesto, and that is a bit of an analysis of how the format/design of social media contributes to the toxicity there. I think it's important to understand this because there's a reason the internet suddenly turned ugly when forums gave way to feeds.

Prior to feeds, the internet was mainly discussion forums like this one. And IMO one very important difference here is that forums are essentially permanent, while feeds tend to evaporate with the dawn. When you get into a disagreement with someone on a forum, it makes sense to take your time, think things through, choose your words carefully. That makes sense when your words are going to be around for years to come. On the other hand, because they are essentially temporary, feeds by their very design encourage shorter, less thoughtful discourse. Why put a ton of thought and effort into a statement that will effectively disappear in a matter of hours or days, buried under an avalanche of new content? And don't even get me started on character limits. How's anybody supposed to be nuanced with a 200-character limit on expression?

I think with discussion groups, there's also a sense of common ground. We're all part of a community here, not just a bunch of random individuals interacting through mutual "friends" who are often nothing more than acquaintances, or family members we have nothing in common with. Usually the groups have a theme, like everybody is there because we share a passion for songwriting or pottery or whatever. 

Anybody else have ideas about how specifically the format of the old internet feels better and leads to better interactions?



Report Topic

2 Replies

Sort Replies:

Reply by Virtual Insanity

posted
updated

I just read Sadgrl's Internet Manifesto after reading your post.  Honestly, I think you said more interesting things in fewer words than she did Arius.

I do think that feeds are not temporary, they just have the perception of being so (which, as you say, encourages people to post things which are perhaps less considerate, mindful or well thought out), meanwhile I'm sure intelligence services, police, data mining companies and so on will still be able to suck up all that 'temporary' data people toss out there so casually.

Your comments about forum posts being more thought out and that people who take part in the discussions are there more because they want to be, rather than being kinda awkwardly forced to play together (like on social media) are points well made. 

Forums vs. social media might be a bit like the difference between taking part in a club at say a church or a university (regardless of whether the public could attend or not) vs. doing your club's activities in a park or on the street.  In one of those situations people have to go out of their way to see it, the other they maybe didn't want to see it but it was on their way home so it's more in their face and so going to be more open to critical or undesirable engagement...but then they're doing the same thing to you with their club's activities, that's what social media seems like.  Just an analogy, though I think people aren't as quick to be rude in real life.

I imagine it's a bit more difficult to set up a forum than say a Facebook group, I think convenience has played a huge roll in how the internet has changed with people doing what is easy rather than what they might prefer if they knew how.  I also think that computer literacy was probably much higher in the early to mid 2000s than it is now, or would you disagree?  Do those two go hand in hand and feed off each other?

I sometimes wonder what it would be like if likes and dislikes were to disappear and it were just comments.  I'm sure YouTube used to have a star rating system before they had likes and dislikes.  It seems like par for the course to make things more polarising though.

Sadgrl ends her manifesto with "...the problems we're experiencing on the web are reflections of the same problems that exist in real life."  I think it's more like the other way around, the problems from the internet are bleeding over into real life and social media is kinda like a Skinner box.

One last thing I'd like to point out is the difference between the days of dial-up and the later always-on ADSL / cable / fibre connections.  In dial-up days being on the internet cost you by the minute and / or would tie up the only phone line in the house.  You went on-line to do a few fairly specific things, then you'd come off and carry on with real life.  With the always-on connections we don't really have that distinction of going on the internet to do something specific, I think that's a big change that is easily forgotten about.


Report Reply

Reply by Arius

posted
updated

Hey, Virtual Insanity. Thanks for your super thoughtful analysis! I appreciate you taking this conversation deeper, and I agree with everything you said.

"I also think that computer literacy was probably much higher in the
early to mid 2000s than it is now, or would you disagree?  Do those two
go hand in hand and feed off each other?"

I don't know, but I suspect this is true. It's certainly true for me. I used to know how to write simple programs in Basic, do html, etc. But I haven't had the opportunity to use those skills in nearly two decades. When I created my SpaceHey profile, I couldn't remember jack about using html. The changes wrought by Web 2.0 took that control away from us. This is of course disempowering.

Another conflict-creating factor that I hadn't mentioned earlier is the algorithms, of course. As I think most of us are aware at this point, the media is designed to intentionally create conflict, as this leads to more engagement. The algorithm doesn't care if it's negative or positive engagement. The people who own Facebook, Twitter, etc,  get richer the more time people spend fighting each other.



Report Reply